medfly1@cox.net wrote:
Re: Sept 11 debate. Holmgren vs Rogisnsky - organizing.
The debate over 9/11 is controversial because of the three groups that fuel the debate.
The first group are those who believe the government is behind 9/11, hence they refuse to accept being fed just any simplistic explanation which doesn't hold water and defies all logic, the laws of physics as we know them, let alone the standard operating procedures of NORAD for intercepting hi-jacked airliners, making a mockery of their intelligence, the people, the law, our Constitution, and above all, those poor 3,000 souls who were lost that day and in the following events which used 9/11 as a catalyst to launch the never ending so called war on terror. This group has a lot of good reasons to believe that the government is behind 9/11 based on the information released from the government and trying to make sense of it all, which at the end, it doesn't seem to add up. These are the Holmgrens.
The second group who oppose the debate and accept 9/11 as it was offically explained to us, have a problem accepting the possibility that elected high ranking officials, maybe the highest ranking of them all, can be behind such a crime, which in this case they will be faced with the biggest constitutional crisis in the history of this nation and the shock of their life, where we were always taught and raised to believe in our government, looking up at the President as the father figure of our nation, to find out that he and many of his close associates might be behind this hainous crime. Something a lot of us dread even the thought of it, very much like someone suspecting that his/her spouse is cheating and has hard time facing the issue and the consequences of learning the truth, let alone the emotional trauma and fear that this might be the truth. This group has really no interest in the outcome of the debate other than maintaining the status quo ,and don't want anybody to rock the boat and want to continue to believe the same things they are comfortable with.
The third group, are the ones who have real vested interest in 9/11 and benefited from 9/11. Under this group, one can find agents or proponents of some foreign countries that benefited from 9/11, who are trying to deflect any accusation that those particular countries might have actively participated in 9/11 to achieve political, strategic and/or economic gains or all of the above. One can also find those whose job is to protect the government, regardless of what the facts are, and will do whatever it takes to discredit and hush the opposition, as we saw with the JFK assassination and the assassination of several high profile personalities during the 60's, and for this reason the debate about those events is still raging. There are also those with prejudices against a particular group or religion, namely the Arabs and Islam, and see 9/11 as an opportunity and the means to stop the spread of that religion by slandering it, persecute the followers of this particular religion, hoping to proselityze them, as we saw early on during the campaign on Iraq and Afghanistan, where many of our prominent tele-evangilists thought that they were going to gain new business for their ministeries in the Middle East and finally pluck Islam from its roots and have Moslems convert in droves to Christianity. There are also those who were after framing the Arabs in 9/11 to steal their oil with all the reconstruction projects which can not pass the smelling test. All these groups are represented by the Roginskies.
I think the debate will be an exercise of demagoguery. Nobody has any physical evidence, but the facts are very difficult to explain relying on the government scenarios, or the 9/11 commission report. A lot of evidence and testimonies were left out, and it seems that there are a lot of people in the world that won't be go away and are obsessed with 9/11, which changed our world forever. The controlled demolition of WTC 5 & 6, the reported explosions by the firemen, the pictures showing puffs of smoke resulting from alleged explosives throughout WTC 5 & 6 to cause the controlled demolition, the collapse of WTC 7 and the suspect fire at 5:00 PM that day with no reports of this being as a result of any damage from the collapse of WTC 5 & 6 as someone claimed some sort of unheard of venturi bogus phenomena, the fact that an aircraft with a 16 feet fuselage diameter, 180 feet long, 120 feet wing span can squeeze into a 10 feet hole inside the Pentagon, the reports of confiscated camera's and films from a nearby gas station and a hotel which showed whatever it was that hit the Pentagon that day, the fact that the government of Saudi Arabia announced that two of the names of the alleged perpetrators were already dead for two years prior to 9/11 and another 5 were still alive in Saudi Arabia, without seeing the FBI nor any branch of the government investigate these statements by the Saudi government to confirm the identities of the perpetrators, the fact that the rubble from the WTCs was disposed of in Long Island Sound and the steel columns were immediately shipped to China for recycling, to prevent any investigation in the possibility of existence of traces of explosives placed in the building to launch the controlled demolition in spite of the fact that fire characteristics are very well understood in steel structures which have been around for more than a century where no steel structure ever collapsed under fire, all of these coincidences and reports along with the fact that those airplanes were hi-jacked for 85 minutes and deviated from their flight course without any interception contrary to NORAD and Air Traffic Control standard procedures which have been in place and routinely proved functional where airlines deviating from their flight course were immediately intercepted, compounding that with the fact that the hi-jackers were overflying a nuclear power station on the Hudson river which if these alleged hi-jackers were so sophisticated in planning their crime and are so intimately knowledgeable of our country and startegic facilities, and assuming that they were bent on doing us in, the nuclear reactor was definitely a more valued target for them. A lot of questions but nobody has any evidence other than researching the facts and trying to put the pieces together, and in all honesty, I found the so called conspiracy theorists more believable than any other official explanation I read or heard from any government official or one of their proxies.
Now the fact that Mr. Holmgren is an Aussie, this should not be a reason to discredit him. On 9/11 we, Americans, had the unconditional sympathy and support of the whole world and many in the world would have done anything to help our country that day, because the crime was hainous and uncalled for. But after the dust settled and people began to put the pieces to gether we found Thierry Miesson, the Frenchman who wrote a very good book named L'Effroyable Imposture, which so far never found its way to our shelves, and we have Reverend Charles Gray who wrote several books and gave several speeches throughout the country about 9/11. While of that has ben going for the last five years, our media and newspapers pretended to never heard about such a raging debate and kept the whole issue out of the main stream, which made them look more like propaganda machines like BRAVDA or something.
At the end, debates are healthy, we are all citizens of this world, and what happens in America affects everybody everywhere, and we should keep an open mind and face the facts whatever they are. Go at it Guys..
---- Rosalee Grable webfairy@thewebfairy.com wrote:
>> http://national911debate.blogspot.com/
>>
>> The participants have been sent a password.
>>
>> Let the debate begin.
----------------------------
Re: Sept 11 debate. Holmgren vs Rogisnsky - organizing.
The debate over 9/11 is controversial because of the three groups that fuel the debate.
The first group are those who believe the government is behind 9/11, hence they refuse to accept being fed just any simplistic explanation which doesn't hold water and defies all logic, the laws of physics as we know them, let alone the standard operating procedures of NORAD for intercepting hi-jacked airliners, making a mockery of their intelligence, the people, the law, our Constitution, and above all, those poor 3,000 souls who were lost that day and in the following events which used 9/11 as a catalyst to launch the never ending so called war on terror. This group has a lot of good reasons to believe that the government is behind 9/11 based on the information released from the government and trying to make sense of it all, which at the end, it doesn't seem to add up. These are the Holmgrens.
The second group who oppose the debate and accept 9/11 as it was offically explained to us, have a problem accepting the possibility that elected high ranking officials, maybe the highest ranking of them all, can be behind such a crime, which in this case they will be faced with the biggest constitutional crisis in the history of this nation and the shock of their life, where we were always taught and raised to believe in our government, looking up at the President as the father figure of our nation, to find out that he and many of his close associates might be behind this hainous crime. Something a lot of us dread even the thought of it, very much like someone suspecting that his/her spouse is cheating and has hard time facing the issue and the consequences of learning the truth, let alone the emotional trauma and fear that this might be the truth. This group has really no interest in the outcome of the debate other than maintaining the status quo ,and don't want anybody to rock the boat and want to continue to believe the same things they are comfortable with.
The third group, are the ones who have real vested interest in 9/11 and benefited from 9/11. Under this group, one can find agents or proponents of some foreign countries that benefited from 9/11, who are trying to deflect any accusation that those particular countries might have actively participated in 9/11 to achieve political, strategic and/or economic gains or all of the above. One can also find those whose job is to protect the government, regardless of what the facts are, and will do whatever it takes to discredit and hush the opposition, as we saw with the JFK assassination and the assassination of several high profile personalities during the 60's, and for this reason the debate about those events is still raging. There are also those with prejudices against a particular group or religion, namely the Arabs and Islam, and see 9/11 as an opportunity and the means to stop the spread of that religion by slandering it, persecute the followers of this particular religion, hoping to proselityze them, as we saw early on during the campaign on Iraq and Afghanistan, where many of our prominent tele-evangilists thought that they were going to gain new business for their ministeries in the Middle East and finally pluck Islam from its roots and have Moslems convert in droves to Christianity. There are also those who were after framing the Arabs in 9/11 to steal their oil with all the reconstruction projects which can not pass the smelling test. All these groups are represented by the Roginskies.
I think the debate will be an exercise of demagoguery. Nobody has any physical evidence, but the facts are very difficult to explain relying on the government scenarios, or the 9/11 commission report. A lot of evidence and testimonies were left out, and it seems that there are a lot of people in the world that won't be go away and are obsessed with 9/11, which changed our world forever. The controlled demolition of WTC 5 & 6, the reported explosions by the firemen, the pictures showing puffs of smoke resulting from alleged explosives throughout WTC 5 & 6 to cause the controlled demolition, the collapse of WTC 7 and the suspect fire at 5:00 PM that day with no reports of this being as a result of any damage from the collapse of WTC 5 & 6 as someone claimed some sort of unheard of venturi bogus phenomena, the fact that an aircraft with a 16 feet fuselage diameter, 180 feet long, 120 feet wing span can squeeze into a 10 feet hole inside the Pentagon, the reports of confiscated camera's and films from a nearby gas station and a hotel which showed whatever it was that hit the Pentagon that day, the fact that the government of Saudi Arabia announced that two of the names of the alleged perpetrators were already dead for two years prior to 9/11 and another 5 were still alive in Saudi Arabia, without seeing the FBI nor any branch of the government investigate these statements by the Saudi government to confirm the identities of the perpetrators, the fact that the rubble from the WTCs was disposed of in Long Island Sound and the steel columns were immediately shipped to China for recycling, to prevent any investigation in the possibility of existence of traces of explosives placed in the building to launch the controlled demolition in spite of the fact that fire characteristics are very well understood in steel structures which have been around for more than a century where no steel structure ever collapsed under fire, all of these coincidences and reports along with the fact that those airplanes were hi-jacked for 85 minutes and deviated from their flight course without any interception contrary to NORAD and Air Traffic Control standard procedures which have been in place and routinely proved functional where airlines deviating from their flight course were immediately intercepted, compounding that with the fact that the hi-jackers were overflying a nuclear power station on the Hudson river which if these alleged hi-jackers were so sophisticated in planning their crime and are so intimately knowledgeable of our country and startegic facilities, and assuming that they were bent on doing us in, the nuclear reactor was definitely a more valued target for them. A lot of questions but nobody has any evidence other than researching the facts and trying to put the pieces together, and in all honesty, I found the so called conspiracy theorists more believable than any other official explanation I read or heard from any government official or one of their proxies.
Now the fact that Mr. Holmgren is an Aussie, this should not be a reason to discredit him. On 9/11 we, Americans, had the unconditional sympathy and support of the whole world and many in the world would have done anything to help our country that day, because the crime was hainous and uncalled for. But after the dust settled and people began to put the pieces to gether we found Thierry Miesson, the Frenchman who wrote a very good book named L'Effroyable Imposture, which so far never found its way to our shelves, and we have Reverend Charles Gray who wrote several books and gave several speeches throughout the country about 9/11. While of that has ben going for the last five years, our media and newspapers pretended to never heard about such a raging debate and kept the whole issue out of the main stream, which made them look more like propaganda machines like BRAVDA or something.
At the end, debates are healthy, we are all citizens of this world, and what happens in America affects everybody everywhere, and we should keep an open mind and face the facts whatever they are. Go at it Guys..
---- Rosalee Grable webfairy@thewebfairy.com wrote:
>> http://national911debate.blogspot.com/
>>
>> The participants have been sent a password.
>>
>> Let the debate begin.
----------------------------
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