TruthSeeker24
Numerous debates with neo-cons
Tue Apr 13, 2004 09:31
128.82.253.46

*Note by me: I didn’t spinners can spin these much lies. It’s amazing how desperate neo-cons will go in lies. These are 3 debates with them. It's so said to witness these people believe some of the most wildiest ideals about America and Bush. What a shame. They usually use these tactics to attempt prove their point:

-change the subject
-question real sources
-character assassination.

Enjoy......


Date: March 26, 2004 at 16:08:25
From: Bill in AZ,
Subject: TS = LS

Bill in AZ: TruthSeeker = LieSpewer (until he grows up and bumps into reality and his "seeking" begins to actually find some truth)

Response: I know reality and list every lie that I've mentioned which you can't. Everything I've shown can be backed up by fact. You can guarantee that. Where are my lies that I'm supposedly spewing? ha ha ha ha !!!!!!!!!! I’ve seeked the truth for years and don’t need to subscribe to your view of America which would turn it in Amerika.

Bill in AZ: As hard as it is sometimes, you gotta try to go easy on kids like this, they will thank us later when they grow up. What's the old saw, "everyone is a Marxist at 20 and a Capitalist at 40".

Response: I'm very young but I'm not a Marxist and I'm a capitalist not crony capitalists with monopolies and damage to small businesses. This is the old cliché I guess. Someone who opposes a tyrant is a Communist, which is hilarious.

Bill in AZ: Kids like TS, perstig, arthur (peaceloving arthur who wants someone to die at least a couple times a week - Ashcroft, Fox News staff, etc) have been blindsided by leftists and libs in the education system, they read some rehashed (and debunked) nonsense on the internet from places like rense, and think they know everything.

Response: I'm brainwashed by Liberals. Wow. In fact, the liberals whom you cry about are totally right on many issues including Iraq. The fact of the matter is that Saddam poses no immediate threat to our nation, Iraq had no massive quantities of WMDs, and the UN/US sanctions hampered the Iraq people killing 1.5 million of them including a half of million civilians.

Saddam is a brutal tyrant but we supply many of his WMDs and we killed their innocent people and you will have to accept that as the truth. You don’t accept the truth. Ashcroft is a footsolider of the Fourth Reich and FOX News is the news channel of the Fourth Reich. Ashcroft actually said that anyone who disagrees with the Patriot Act are working with the terrorists.

He also said under oath in 2001 that there is no Patriot II, but on December 13, 2003 (when Saddam was captured) Patriot II was passed so Ashcroft committed perjury and should be in trial for that. That’s your role model who is a man dedicated to burning the Bill of Rights and the rest of the United States Constitution.

The whole administration are corporate lackeys of the oil industry and many of their companies funded Nazi Germany during WWII. Oh, so that’s your heroes. They are fake corporate cows of the machine. O’Reilly is a liar, Sean Hannity is a distorter, Brit Hume is just most of most greatest Bush followers in my life, etc.

This is fair and Balanced yet the vast majority of the newscasters are from a Right Wing point of view. I don’t mind that, but admit it and FOX refuses to do so which makes their Fair and Balanced myth a pure cop-out for those with eyes to see and ears to hear. I’m proud to be a product of public schools. Public schools is a staple of American society and been here for 2 centuries as a bounty for education. There are problems with it by many global groups, but I would try to improve them plus involve home schooling and other programs to help education.

I even like home schooling also. Show me evidence to refute Bush knowing about 9/11, the Bush/Bin laden business link, the USA government foreknowledge of 9/11, the lies about Iraq, his half-empty partial birth abortion ban, and his anti-gun agenda debunked. You can’t so who is the liar. It’s certainly not me.

You could never refute people like me friend since I’m an intellectual and I know the game. I’ve debated tons of people before on a variety of subjects. You’re neither the first nor the last guy I’ve refuted before.

Bill in AZ: They'll grow up eventually, and like many of the hippies of the 70's will find it embarrassing and hard to believe they were so naive in their youth. And they'll be hardcore capitalists, sick of working 10 times harder and pissing away hardearned dollars on the lazy and no-account who want something for nothing.

Response: I’m growing up. I’m grown up about the reality of Bush’s criminal enterprises. This capitalist bravado has nothing to do with reality and nothing to do with Bush’s warped plans for this country. Bush needs repentance and that’s what he needs basically.

Bill in AZ: If they're lucky they will have to work for a living, and discover what real life is about and how this great country - for all its warts and problems - is still the best of the best for the opportunity it provides. They will (hopefully) discover that it is what they choose to make of themselves that matters, not what the country "gives" or "does" for you.

Response: American people on the most part are good people. I’ve be a liar if I’ve said that America is totally holy or America is like some godsend. My conscience won’t allow me to believe that fantasy.

America has been complicate in terrorism for centuries especially in the 20th century when we expelled Communist rulers (Communism is bad), but in return we’ve installed fascist dictators into their place (mainly by the CIA in Iraq, Afghanistan, South America, Africa, Haiti, etc.) Yeah, there something I can do for this country and that’s to expose the criminals occupying this White House.

Bill in AZ: 'Course, if they aren't lucky enough to have to work for a living, they'll grow up to be Ted Kennedy or J f'n Kerry - totally disconnected from reality their entire lives, what a shame.

Response: I’m not totally a liberal neither totally a conservative. I realize that John Kerry is a member of the Skulls and Bones and the Council of Foreign Relations, which are Globalist Groups.

Ted Kennedy is an old man, gun grabber, etc. and done some good things in society and bad. You are caught up in the perception that all liberals are fundamentally evil which is just as wrong to think that for conservatives. There are many things that people from the Left and Right are agreeing on and many from the Right are even opposing the Bush Gestapo.

PS - this isn't a personal attack on TS because TS is an invented personality. It just isn't possible that someone in real life could be that much of a LLL barking moonbat.

Response: I’m not a moonbat, but a man who sees the truth. I realize this isn’t a personal attack, but neo-con propaganda trying to convince me of lying, deceptive President. Sorry, but no thank you on support a party and a President whose ideas of freedom is to kill people for no reason and to install puppets as his friends. I will not pimp for the President or for lies.

I will not succumb to the prostitution of the White House pimping out Cheney, Condy Rice (a known liar saying that the White House didn’t know of any warning of hijacked airplanes), Wolfowitz, Powell, Rumsfeld, and Armitage. No, thank you but I’m fine being part of God’s side and exposing the tranquilizing drug of folly.

________________________

Orphan Child: Quite frankly, I have confronted you quite often TS. I am not afraid of you, and I am not a neocon. In fact, I am an old school conservative.

Response: You are not an old school conservative. Do you know why? It's because you support the vast majority of Bush's policies of illegal laws (The Patriot Act and its Section 213 states that police can arrest you and search your property for any reason all without a warrant and not even tell you about them secretly searching your property.

Even if there were provisions to do that before 9/11 in Drug cases it still violates the 4th Amendment of searches and seizures without a warrant or just cause. According to Ron Paul, many Congress people weren’t given enough time to investigate the bill more elaborately in Insight Magazine.

The Patriot Act was proposed before 9/11 and Bush does have veto power and he still signed it. Section 802’s definition of a terrorist is so ambiguous that it could include a whole host of non-terror actions being labeled as a felony. That's illegal, illegal wars (Iraq was no threat to America, no ties to al-Qaeda, no complex WMDs, therefore no purpose for war), and big centralized government (Homeland SSecurity, Northcom, IAO, etc.)

Real conservatives and real liberals oppose that irrational nonsense and garbage. That's garbage. Hugh and Bill are funny cowards. I've come to anyone's face and say what a lousy failure this President is.

Orphan Child: AQ took responsibility for 9/11, as well as taking responsibility for many other terrorist attacks. It seems you would like to forget that AQ has been in the terrorism business for a couple of decades now.

Response: Of course it’s reasonable for some low-level rag-tag al-Qeada members taking responsibility for 9/11. 9/11 was a terrible event. Osama (the head of al-Qaeda) on the other hand denied any involvement in al-Qaeda in an Ummat Pakistani interview on September 28, 2001 saying it's against his religion to kill innocent men, women, and children even in the course of battle. He swore on the Koran. This whole interview is found on

www.khilafah.com/home/cat...92&TagID=2

I don't agree with everything Osama says, but I will here the man out and Osama was a victim of CIA manipulation from Afghanistan in the 1970's onward. I don't forget that al-Qeada is a CIA creation for decades.

It's a known historical fact that from 1979-1992, the US gave $6 billion to the mujaddehin to fight for jihad. Osama was a well-known supporter of the MAK and other jihadists in the 1980's that were paid by him and armed by the CIA. MAK evolved in al-Qaeda by Osama.

The ISI and CIA supported Osama's activities until the Gulf War when Osama disagreed with U.S. troops on American soil. al-Qeada committed terrorist acts but in the early days, America supported them. That was the time he became the big boogeyman and patsy.

Even according Harrison from the Woodrow Wilson International Centre for Scholars, the U.S. gave Muslim radicals $3 billion in funding. A lot of the tapes you hear of al-Qeada members and Osama are proven frauds.

msnbc.msn.com/id/3340101/ is a site of a MSNBC article by reporter Mike Moran exposing the CIA ties with Osama bin Laden. He said this is blowback or we prop up a man and now he’s the great enemy will have to fight. He’s right and the Osama that you see today is a total product of the CIA.

I won’t believe a lie. Osama bin Oswald had nothing to do with 9/11 by sophistication, influence, power, and devices. Also, the BBC reported that many hijackers (6) are proven alive and well after 9/11.

There is no way they could of done since they were alive after the fact or do you want to believe in the Easter Bunny instead. To believe Osama has the power in a cave to use 4 planes without intercept to sensitive U.S. targets in perfect symmetry to kill 3,000 people with no warning detected is garbage.

Orphan Child: Are you trying to make me believe that you would of supported any efforts to avert 9/11, previous to 9/11? You do not support any efforts to avert another 9/11, post 9/11.

Response: I support preserving freedom (including protecting this country) whether before or after 9/11. What I don't support is fingerprints, illegal laws, unnecessary penalties for minor offenses, a high deficit; jobs outsourced overseas, continuation of this fake Drug War, the IAO Big Brother apparatus.

There's a difference between wanting to protect your country and blatant in your face Big Brother and Bush is the greatest Big Brother, government expanding, illegal law creating President in American history.

Orphan Child: Terrorists were trained in private airfields in Florida. One right up the road from me.

Response: That’s a half-truth. Many of the accused hijackers were trained in American airbases in Florida not just simple and private airfields.

MSNBC now admits that military documents that it is possible for Saeed Alghamdi and Ahmad Alnami to train as foreign nations since their locations were in 10 Radford Boulevard where foreign trainees are usually found.

This is Pensacola Airbase, a military (not a private) facility. The website where it can be found is at www.propagandamatrix.com/...bases.html

In the website it mentioned that: “THREE OF THE alleged hijackers listed their address on drivers licenses and car registrations as the Naval Air Station in Pensacola, Fla.—known as the “Cradle of U.S. Navy Aviation,” according to a high-ranking U.S. Navy source.”

www.scoop.co.nz/mason/arc...ae3a6.html

Orphan Child: Nobody stood down that day. Nobody was prepared, pure and simple. All of this confirmed by mainstream news articles.

Response: This is silly and desperation on your part. The fact is that NORAD did stood down. NORAD is very advanced and tracks every object in the atmosphere worldwide.

To say that NORAD was prepared for the greatest terror attack in American history is ludicrous and overly ignorant plus not rational. You are not thinking rationally obviously just like Bill in AZ and Hugh. NORAD had 90 minutes to protect the Pentagon after the Second Tower was hit. NORAD can easily immediately send planes in 5 minutes to guard D.C., but didn’t.

Why? There are more than 7 bases in continental America to protect us. They did nothing so they stood down allowing 3,000 people to be killed. General Myers said he could respond until after the Pentagon was hit which was over 90 minutes after the first Tower was hit in NYC. This doesn’t add up.

www.cooperativeresearch.n...fense.html is a site with mainstream sources proves the inconsistencies of the NORAD lies.

Orphan Child: And if you want to use Payne Stewert as an argument, go ahead if you like. I have debunked that old saw about four times now.

Reponse: Who is Payne Stewart. I don’t know who he is. Tons of scholars disagree with the idiotic story of 9/11 giving by the White House. They include me, Carol A. Valentine, Alex Jones, Paul Watson, John Kaminski, Jim Marrs, liberals, conservatives, and libertarians.

There are legitimate questions about 9/11 that the administration has failed to answered and that isn’t extremist but common sense. It isn’t way out for the government to be involved in 9/11. I see no refutation by you in refuting the people I’ve mentioned telling the truth on what happened during 9/11.

Orphan Child: Please do use real sources. It would help a lot.

Response: I’ve shown tons of real sources before and in this refutation.

Orphan Child: Clinton was in office for the genocide at Waco. I don't particularly care if he was an internationalist, he didn't take care of the national defense.

Response: Clinton was in office during the genocide of Waco and is an internationalist. There are indeed a lot of national security failures he did and I don’t deny that.

Orphan Child: How can you really bring up the 70's and 80's, and try to pin the blame on the present administration? That is a stretch. The most recent cite there is 20 years old.

Response: You know why I cite them. It’s because it connects the dots. There is nothing wrong with showing the past to let you understand the present and improve the future. Have you learned that logic? I do cite recent sources, which is another lie.

One is W199- EYE in 2001, which Bush signed to prevent the FBI to investigate the bin Ladens or face imprisonment. One example of this is from www.propagandamatrix.com/...trail.html

when Osama bin Laden’s brother was refused to be investigated by the government. This is recorded in the Times of India and the BBC (both mainstream new articles) Who are trying to con neo-con? Don’t you know that FBI agents are angry over this trag

• The rest of it — TruthSeeker24, Tue Apr 13 09:36
• NeoCon Answers ...... — Michael Eisner, Tue Apr 13 14:58
• ENGINEERING IDEAS THROUGH CENSORSHIP — CRAM, Tue Apr 13 15:28