I think we have two different people with the same name.
Kathryn Cramer
I think we have two different people with the same name.
Tue Apr 6, 2004 15:15
63.228.145.202

I think we have two different people with the same name.
http://www.kathryncramer.com/mt/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=487

Comments: A Tale of Two Ts: Self Criticism
Posted by Fe˛rag at April 3, 2004 11:53 AM

This article gives Teague (the Nazi one)'s age as 30 in 1998, and this scary article gives the name of the mother of his (two, female) children as 'Christian', not Rhonda, so I think we have two different people with the same name.
Posted by Kathryn Cramer at April 3, 2004 12:13 PM

Switching wives in 5 years is easy enough. I've emailed the Southern Poverty Law Center to see if they can shed some light on this.
Posted by fauxreal at April 3, 2004 04:44 PM

msnbc has a family-supplied picture of Teague on their website. I would send it to you, but I don't have a photo site set up.

do you have a picture of the guy who was with Aryan Nations? ...there were tons of articles at the time, including one from Salon.com.
Posted by Kathryn Cramer at April 3, 2004 05:57 PM

I tried that angle but came up empty on the AN Teague. Too bad.
Posted by bloggirl at April 4, 2004 04:23 AM

Found a picture of AN Michael Teague at - where else - the AN website. Pretty sure they're two different guys.

http://www.twelvearyannations.com/photoalbum/trialparadepic.html

Sorry - I don't know code. There are two photos of AN Teague in the middle of the page. I'm pretty sure he's the guy with the flat top behind, then next to Butler.
Posted by aish at April 4, 2004 01:54 PM

so the best you can do is tarnish a dead person by suggesting that he's a nazi, and then go through a process to find out that he is in fact NOT the same person. But the damage is done, and already the rumour is circulating (traced back to you) that the man was a neo-nazi.

Shame on you
Posted by Kathryn Cramer at April 4, 2004 02:00 PM

On the contrary, I am coming to the conclusion that they are the same person based on the photos. But we need more photos or more other information. Do you have anything to bring to the table?
Posted by Tampa Bum at April 4, 2004 04:56 PM

Frankly, I'm not that thrilled that this was posted, particularly when the information is far from conclusive. It smacks rather heavily of the same sort of tactics that the nutball right uses. Since the can of worms has been opened, I'll suggest a few things.

First, bald white guys in their 30s tend to look alike in grainy photos (I should know, I am one), so the pictures introduced so far are pretty worthless.

Second, the AN Michael Teague was involved in a civil trial, and appears to have been arrested. (I note that the AN Michael Teague seems to be 2 years younger than the BW Teague.) Idaho should have the records that more completely identify him. A simple records request in Idaho would go a long way toward settling the matter one way or the other. (I note that the AN Michael Teague seems to be 2 years younger than the BW Teague.)

Third, I'm not sure why anyone would expect information showing up in Google on an ex-special operations type who was involved in the security business. These are low profile people by nature.

Fourth, a chunk of BW Michael Teague's military records are public information. When he served, what units, and his discharge status can be ascertained, if anyone feels like pursuing it.

Finally, I'll be interested to see if a mea culpa is posted here if it turns out that the Michael Teagues aren't the same person.
Posted by Kathryn Cramer at April 4, 2004 06:07 PM

If they're not the same guy, I will apologize profusely. I have made plans for that possibility.

I'm not thrilled that I'm doing this, either. This kind of exploration does not make me feel good. And yes, grainy photos of bald white guys do look alike. I had expected that once I had photos, it would be simple to tell them apart. No such luck.

If they are the same guy, this was too important to leave alone and is deeply upsetting. I would like to believe that someone would have checked out this possibility if I hadn't, but I don't believe they would have.

And if the two Teagues not the same guy, the reason why the trail of the ex-AN Teague disppears a few years ago is because the AN wants to kill him. Knowing that now, it will be that much more difficult to resolve this.

This all makes me at least as uncomfortable as it makes you.
Posted by Jon Hansen at April 4, 2004 08:34 PM

Kathryn, I'm pretty sure this is two different guys. Found an 2002 article from AP State & Local for Idaho (via Lexis-Nexis) describing an assault on Michael Teague (the white supremicist) which mentions the wife & two daughters (who were also attacked). But the sixteen year old son belongs to Teague the Blackwater guy, according to another AP story on the Fajullah attack.

I can send you the articles via email if you like.
Posted by pdwarren at April 5, 2004 04:43 PM

Michael R. Teague, who passed away in Fallujah, Iraq on April 1, 2004 - was not an Aryan Nations leader. I knew the man. He was a loving, caring individual that would have done whatever he could to help ANYONE! I don't understand how you can try to link this kind young man to such awful information about someone who happens to have the same name. You should have left well enough alone until you had conclusive evidence that he was indeed the spawn of Hitler. You have degraded his name, reputation, and memory by even mentioning him inconnection with such a heinous individual. His family is suffering enough with his loss - please - do the kind thing and delete this mess that you have created!
Posted by Kathryn Cramer at April 5, 2004 04:47 PM

You should have left well enough alone until
you had conclusive evidence that he was indeed the spawn of Hitler.

Yes, I should have. I'm very sorry to hear of your loss.

It would be my preference to take it down. However I am currently under attack from a group of rightwing vandals who have been threatening me with a variety of things if I do. I'm looking into the option of letting the police deal with them. Once I've solved that problem, it is my desire to take it down.
Posted by AJ at April 5, 2004 05:29 PM

Kathryn, I have to confess that I struggle to believe that "right wing vandals" are threatening you if you *don't* take your insinuations down. Most, I think, would love to see these accusations gone ... I can see the possibility of threats (of lawsuits, etc) if you left your statements up and available, but not if you were to take them down.

I'm glad that you can't find the original post any longer, at least by doing a search for "teague" on your site. Now won't you simply post an apology and let us all put this behind us? You were wrong about Michael Teague. Be an adult, admit it, and let's go on from here.
Posted by Kathryn Cramer at April 5, 2004 06:47 PM

I find it hard to believe, too. Nonetheless, when I deleted the post is when they really came after me and what many of their initial posts were about.
Posted by Caitlin at April 6, 2004 09:11 AM

I don't know if you saw "Observer" piece "Why an SUV is now the most dangerous vehicle in Iraq", but author Patrick Graham cites Michael Teague as a 38-year-old wrestling coach from Tennessee. Perhaps this information will assist you in your admirable research on this topic. Here's the URL:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1185307,00.html
======================

April 06, 2004
Sounds Like a Setup for a Massacre to Me

From the Chicago Sun Times:
Bodyguards in Iraq turn to 'massive firepower' after attack

BY COLIN FREEMAN

BAGHDAD -- American bodyguards in Iraq want to strengthen their weaponry with hand grenades and high-powered machineguns after four private security consultants were murdered in Fallujah last week.

Only coalition soldiers are allowed to carry explosives under existing regulations, leaving up to 20,000 civilian contractors working as guards outgunned by insurgents with rocket-propelled grenades and belt-fed machineguns.

The Coalition Provisional Authority is horrified by the contractors' plans to flout the rules, believing that such action could lead to a serious escalation in violence as the June deadline approaches for power to be transferred to the Iraqis.

On Saturday, however, Malcolm Nance, a former adviser to the CIA and the U.S. National Security Agency who has spent 10 months in Iraq supervising security for businesses and charities, warned that firms would "go heavy" to prevent a repeat of last week's murders.

The bodies of the four security consultants were mutilated by a cheering mob of Iraqis after their vehicles were hit by rocket-propelled grenades. Weapons such as hand grenades can be bought in the city's illegal weapons markets for as little as a dollar.

Nance said his personnel would now be using "massive firepower."

"People are going into battle now. In military terms, we describe a hand grenade as a "break contact" device used as a final option to stop any contact in an enemy attack.

"Nobody I have employed out here uses them, but I would imagine thatbreak contact devices will get used a lot more as a result of the incident in Fallujah.

"Security escorts will continue to be discreet, but everybody here is waiting to get hit. My own escorts will be increasing their manpower in each vehicle."

British security firms, which tend to adopt a lower-key approach, are alarmed by the prospect of American guards increasing their weaponry.

"The last thing we need is loads of Americans running around grenading people," said one company manager. "But I fear that a few may end up carrying grenades, and God knows what other weapons, too."

Most private guards in Iraq have relied on Kalashnikovs or MP5 machine pistols and sidearms, believing that their superior military training made them a match for attackers. Last week's deaths have forced them to review their tactics.

"The guys in Fallujah were nearly all ex-Special Forces and from one of the best security companies going," Nance said. "People might be wearing body armor and carrying helmets and high-velocity weapons, but that won't protect you against a rocket-propelled grenade, which can just obliterate your car."

(Via Sheilagh in the comments)
Posted by Kathryn Cramer at 02:10 AM | Comments (10) | TrackBack (0)
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