RE: The information the Scholars apparently don;t want relea

Gerard Holmgren

RE: The information the Scholars apparently don;t want relea

Sat Mar 11, 2006 23:36

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: The information the Scholars apparently don;t want released
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:11:35 +1100
From: Gerard Holmgren holmgren@iinet.net.au
To: jfetzer@d.umn.edu

I see that Jim Fetzer acknowledges that the Scholar's group is still
"catching up" with research has been in the public domain for years.

That's fine - better late than never. But if so, then a little more humility
towards those who are years ahead would be in order. And so would an end to,
and a retraction of the plagiarism as outlined in my article

Scholars for 911Plagiarism and disinformation
http://members.iinet.net.au/~holmgren/scholars.html

Nevertheless it is curious that the Scholars managed to so quickly catch up
with things which never happened at all.

Like the black boxes being found at the WTC. Like the rubbish about Rumsfeld
taking personal control of scramble procedures, thoroughly debunked in my
article

Jim Hoffman trashes the sept 11 stand down evidence

http://members.iinet.net.au/~holmgren/hoffmanstanddown.html

but somehow never managed to catch up with something which has been
available in the public domain since Nov 2003, and is fully verifiable from
an official Bureau of transportation database.

I am curious as to when this information might be acknowledged.

Still for people who took four years to work out the law of gravity still
works and still haven't managed to work out that things look bigger when
they are closer, I guess we have to be patient.

And sure, we can all get behind in things. I currently feel embarrassed by
my site's treatment of flight 93, which has fallen through the cracks in my
updating and is desperately in need of it.

On the other hand, I don't swagger around the place, promoting myself as an
expert on flight 93, claiming credit for work I never did, actively
defending some of the inaccuracies which are still on my site, (left over
from when I was misled by the earlier disinformation that scattered plane
parts were found in PA,) and issuing edicts to those who are at the cutting
edge to fall into line.

For someone who's total research contribution is zero, and is on record as
saying that he doesn't even have the intellectual capacity to understand
much of what has been already been done, Fetzer really needs to learn some
humility. I think he would be very useful licking stamps for someone who is
actually capable of understanding the issues at hand.

The serious plagiarism issues outlined in my article linked above remain
unattended to.

The petition is an absurdity.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfetzer@d.umn.edu [mailto:jfetzer@d.umn.edu]
Sent: Sunday, 12 March 2006 10:47 AM
To: Gerard Holmgren; jfetzer@d.umn.edu
Cc: 'Michael Morrissey'; 'Nico Haupt'; 'Jones, Steven'; 'MorganReynolds';
''Rosalee Grable'; babelmagazine@adelphia.net; wingedpiper@yahoo.com;
rmunro@clarku.edu; rmerrill@mica.edu; mcginn@ohio.edu; ajohnson@cs.uic.edu;
webstertarpley@yahoo.com; apfn@apfn.net; jwalter@reopen911.org;
chossudovsky@videotron.ca; Press@tvnewslies.org;
editor@thetruthseeker.co.uk; aauaplanes09112001whathappened@yahoo.co.uk;
contactus@legitgov.org; email@hbuecker.net; contact@rumormillnews.com;
simon.gray@abovetopsecret.com; Gerhard_Wisnewski_3@compuserve.com;
skylax@comcast.net; dame.tartine@skynet.be; jiri.kudelka@villusion.cz;
serendipity@magnet.ch; MPWright9@aol.com; k-robjoe@online.no;
krsto.herenda@zd.hinet.hr; 'PlaguePuppy'; WDoyle5615@aol.com;
johnhorneuk@aol.com; bollynkaskel@yahoo.com; editor@americanfreepress.net;
email@unmask.dk; titus@pacific.net; lynnlandes@earthlink.net;
mitchelcohen@mindspring.com; Tfaune@aol.com; ADuncan282@aol.com;
APFN@apfn.org; HQ2600@aol.com; wwwatcher2001@yahoo.com; kenvan@comcast.net;
cookb@ulv.edu; mkeefer@look.ca; tim.howells@nc.uas.lul.se;
mkeefer@uoguelph.ca; duffy@HCI.NET; hcianci@txcc.commnet.edu;
jeff_farrer@byu.edu; judy.wood@ces.clemson.edu; curtisr@seattleu.edu;
MARCUS.FORD@NAU.EDU; wahinkpe@yahoo.com; barbie@ruf.rice.edu;
kevin@mujca.com; psychhst@tiac.net; gabbardd@mail.ecu.edu
Subject: Re: The information the Scholars apparently don;t want released

All,

There appears to be a lot of hare-brained nonsense emanating from a few of
the members of this list. Just for the record, there is no "information"
that Scholars for 9/11 Truth does not want released, but we have a commit-
ment to truth. Our society is dedicated to exposing falshoods and reveal-
ing truths about 9/11. We are conducting our own research in a patient,
methodical fashion. Most of us agree with Michael's sentiments, but the
timing of his forum, given the petition and the similarity in the name of
his forum, obviously invited confusion between his personal operation and
st911.org. So I suggested that, at this point in time, it looked to me to
be counterproductive to advancing the aims of the society. He agreed and
took it down. Perhaps the occasion may be more auspicious in the future,
but I think it was the right thing to do. Science advances by a process
of successive approximation. We are dedicated to discovering the truth
about 9/11. I wish I believed that were true for everyone who belongs to
the 9/11 community, but that would be naive. Personally, I would not be
surprised if there were major discrepancies concerning the 9/11 flights.
That is an area of research where we may have things to learn from you.
But those who are attacking the society because we have not yet "caught
up" to your positions are those who are practicing censorship and doing
harm to our efforts to expose the truth. You might want to consider your
role in these things before you rush off, half-cocked, to criticize others.

Jim

Quoting Gerard Holmgren :

> As explained in my article
>
>
>
> What really happened to American Airlines Flights 11 and 77 on Sept 11,
> dated Nov 13 2003
>
>
>
> http://members.iinet.net.au/~holmgren/1177.html
>
>
>
> Official flight logs from the Bureau of Transportation state that no such
> flights as A11 or 77 took place on Sept 11 2001.
>
>
>
> Since it is theoretically possible that the flights did take place but
were
> somehow omitted from the database, this does not constitute proof that the
> flights never happened, but it dopes present an overwhelming case for that
> conclusion.
>
>
>
> To my knowledge no-one has ever presented any credible counter argument in
> support of the theoretical possibility that the data base is inaccurate.
>
>
>
> To simply uncritically assume as a fact that the flights took place -
> without even mentioning the BTS evidence - borders on disinformation by
> selective omission.
>
>
>
> Nevertheless, let us hypothesis that someone presents a credible argument
> which gives cause for serious consideration of the possibility that the
> flights did take place, and were somehow deleted from the database.
>
>
>
> If so, then we must note that the NTSB reports into the allegedly crashed
> flights do not mention that mandatory flight data is missing.
>
>
>
> Why is this in itself not a subject of interest ? When a plane crashes,
air
> crash investigators are supposed to look under every nook and cranny, to
> find out every detail about that flight, to leave no stone unturned in the
> investigation.
>
>
>
> Therefore, it should be a major feature of the NTSB investigation to be
> asking. "Why and how did mandatory flight data for these two flights go
> missing. ? Was it never recorded ? Or was it subsequently deleted ? If the
> latter, why and by whom. If the former, why was it not recorded ? And also
,
> why were they not even recorded as scheduled , which is a separate process
> from recording flight data ? Thus indicating a double indiscretion ? The
> fact that two separate processes of data compilation for the two flights
> were both violated strongly indicates that it was done with intent.
>
>
>
> Was this connected with the fate of the flights ? If so, in what manner ?
>
>
>
> These basic questions should form a crucial part of any NTSB
investigation.
> But the NTSB simply pretends that all is normal.
>
> And so do the Scholars (as an organization).
>
>
>
> So does Griffin, BTW. Before publishing NPH, Griffin wrote to me, telling
me
> of his intention to include some of my work on the Pentagon incident, a
> courtesy for which I thank him. At the time, we discussed the BTS data,
and
> he indicated an initial intention to include that also, but then pulled it
> at the last minute, giving no reason other than that it was "hard to
> believe" .
>
>
>
> I don't believe that he has mentioned it since. But we nevertheless find
the
> scholars group (as an organization) quite prepared to publicly put forward
> the complete bullshit that 3 black boxes were found at the WTC.
>
>
>
> If we can ask why the secrecy about the mythical black boxes, surely we
can
> ask the NTSB some questions about something which is recorded as a matter
of
> factual public record.
>
>
>
> That being A) Official transportation data says that there were no such
> flights.
>
> B) On the assumption that the data simply went missing, and that the
flights
> existed, why the NTSB did not make this a major focus of its report and
does
> not even mention it.
>
>
>
> >From my POV, if the Scholars (as an organization) continue to refuse to
> include this in the "imvestigation" demands, then they are on trial just
as
> much as the NTSB.
>
>
02/23/06 Coast to Coast re: 9/11
Part 1 http://www.apfn.net/audio/A001I06022400053600550-911a.MP3 (2.34MB) 10 min 15 sec
Part 2 http://www.apfn.net/audio/A002I06022400182400550-911b.MP3 (6.78MB) 29 min 38 sec
Part 3 http://www.apfn.net/audio/A003I06022401055200550-911c.MP3 (5.21MB) 22 Min 46 Sec
Part 4 http://www.apfn.net/audio/A004I06022401305400550-911d.MP3 (4.56MB) 19 Min 55 Sec
Part 5 http://www.apfn.net/audio/A005I06022402065000550-911e.MP3 (4.41MB) 19 Min 16 Sec
Part 6 http://www.apfn.net/audio/A006I06022402334200550-911f.MP3 (4.49MB) 19 Min 39 Sec
9-11 Attack on America
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/WTC.htm
PowerPoint Presentation/Movies:
9/11 Attack on America Part 1
The Irregularities of 9/11 10.5MB
http://www.apfn.org/movies/911.ppt
9/11 Attack on America Part 2
Omissions & Distortions (David Ray Griffin)13.9MB
http://www.apfn.org/movies/911-2.ppt

9/11 Revisited (Movie)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psP_9RE0V2I

9/11 UNANSWERED QUESTIONS
UnAnsweredQuestions.org is an on-line community of concerned citizens, researchers,
independent investigators and journalists asking and exploring unanswered questions. Our
intention is to add energy to those who participate in a spirit of independent, non-partisan
and useful inquiry. We believe that good questions can lead to answers and
solutions. We believe in transparency that supports people and possibilities with
uncommon sense.
http://www.unansweredquestions.org/audio.php

*Listen to the June 10, 2002 press conference.
PART I
http://clients.loudeye.com/imc/mayday/2002-06-11-part1.mp3
PART II
http://clients.loudeye.com/imc/mayday/2002-06-11-part2.mp3
PART III
http://clients.loudeye.com/imc/mayday/2002-06-11-part3.mp3
THE HIJACKERS?
http://www.unansweredquestions.org/background_61.php

R.I.S.E.- Radio Internet Story Exchange
http://www.rise4news.net/Programs.html