MEET THE PRESS.
"The Case for Democracy," Natan Sharansky / Pat Buchanan
Mon Feb 14, 2005 16:06
64.140.158.44
CONT'D: "The Case for Democracy," Natan Sharansky / Pat Buchanan
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6954712/
MR. BUCHANAN: And then you will get out of all of the West Bank that's been occupied since 19...
MR. SHARANSKY: You know, the moments to democracy always will find a compromise, and I think- -as a matter of fact, today you will saying something, it goes without say, that every piece of territory which is under Palestinian control should be free from Jews. Well, it is clear that every piece of territory which is under control of Israel should not be and I think should not be free from Arabs. Let's prove that you have different types of societies and let...
MR. BUCHANAN: Would you let the Palestinians who lived in Israel before 1948 in a peace agreement return to their homes in what is now Israel?
MR. SHARANSKY: No. Look, exactly as modern--millions and millions of Jews came from different countries...
MR. BUCHANAN: Right.
MR. SHARANSKY: ...and live there and they're not returning to those countries and...
MR. BUCHANAN: But...
MR. SHARANSKY: ...even to absorb all those millions and millions grandchildren of those people who live over there, there would be no Jewish state anymore. Not one Jewish state. There's so many Arab states and you don't want to tell me one Jewish state...
MR. BUCHANAN: No, no.
MR. SHARANSKY: ...in the world.
MR. BUCHANAN: No, what I'm saying is you're saying--and I agree--in a peaceful agreement in Palestine...
MR. SHARANSKY: Yeah.
MR. BUCHANAN: ...that Jews ought to have a right to live...
MR. SHARANSKY: Yeah.
MR. BUCHANAN: ...on the West Bank. But if that is true, why cannot Palestinians, whose families have lived in that--where you live now for a thousand years, why cannot they in peace come home?
MR. SHARANSKY: And so there are more than a million Arabs who are full citizens of...
MR. BUCHANAN: Who want to come to Israel?
MR. SHARANSKY: ...Israel, who live in Israel, who--I think that we are the only country where Arab members of the parliament can freely criticize their government and enjoy all the freedoms and it is very important for us that not a one Arab citizen of Israel will leave it. But again, the problem in the Middle East was not created because of the lack of democracy...
MR. BUCHANAN: All right.
MR. SHARANSKY: ...but it cannot be solved if it will be not--if we will be the only democratic society there.
MR. BUCHANAN: Well, you're a democracy, but look...
MR. SHARANSKY: Yeah.
MR. BUCHANAN: ...and you say democracies are peaceful. Israel has fought five major wars since it was established. In three of them, 1956, 1967 and 1982, Israel launched pre-emptive strikes. It has been one of the most warlike countries in the Middle East. You have the king of Morocco, king of Jordan, king of Saudi Arabia and Ariel Sharon. Which of those four has been more warlike?
MR. SHARANSKY: Israel is the only member of the United Nations who's under constant threat of total annihilation--total annihilation. We have to fight for our rights to exist on this world...
MR. BUCHANAN: That's right.
MR. SHARANSKY: ...from the day we were born and I have to say unfortunately one of the modern problems of anti-Semitism is the denial of the right of Israel to exist.
MR. BUCHANAN: All right.
MR. SHARANSKY: They say all the Palestinians have to go back to Tel Aviv and all the Jews who came there, it's a colony. They have to leave it. That's what they hear now more and more in...
MR. BUCHANAN: Look, every American supports the right of Israel to exist and...
MR. SHARANSKY: Yeah.
MR. BUCHANAN: ...almost every American supports American weapons to Israel to defend its national security and national existence...
MR. SHARANSKY: Yeah.
MR. BUCHANAN: ...however, we do believe that Israel has got to give up the occupied territories in Gaza and the West Bank because this problem in the Middle East, which is caused there, is causing acts of terror, not only against you, but against us. It is making us hated in a part of the world where the United States was never before hated, was admired, if you will.
MR. SHARANSKY: Let me make final statement, please, final phrase on this.
MR. RUSSERT: Let him talk.
MR. SHARANSKY: I am willing, I wish, I want, I insist to give the Palestinians all the rights in the world except the right to destroy me. And the only way to do it is to encourage democratic reforms and a merging of a Democratic Palestinian state.
MR. BUCHANAN: Justice can't wait upon democracy.
MR. RUSSERT: To be continued.
MR. SHARANSKY: There will be no justice without democracy.
MR. RUSSERT: To be continued. Mr. Sharansky, this is your second appearance on MEET THE PRESS.
MR. SHARANSKY: Yes.
MR. RUSSERT: Ironically, 19 years ago...
MR. SHARANSKY: Yes.
MR. RUSSERT: ...shortly after your release from a Soviet prison, this is what American viewers saw.
MR. SHARANSKY: Yeah.
(Videotape, February 16, 1986):
Unidentified Man: Our guest today on MEET THE PRESS, Sunday, February 16, 1986, live from Tel Aviv, Israel, Anatoly Sharansky, a leader of the Soviet human rights movement, just released from eight years of Communist captivity, and Avital Sharansky, the wife who wouldn't let the world forget.
(End videotape)
MR. RUSSERT: And shortly after that you journeyed to the United States, met with President Reagan, and one Pat Buchanan in the White House. And you can...
MR. SHARANSKY: Yeah. Yeah.
MR. RUSSERT: ...still have a robust disagreement this morning.
MR. BUCHANAN: It was a pleasure.
MR. SHARANSKY: It's been a pleasure.
MR. RUSSERT: That's what democracy's all about. Thank you very much. We'll be right back.
MR. RUSSERT: Before we go, from 1969 to 1983, Sunday morning viewers watched George Herman question the leading figures in American politics as moderator of CBS' "Face the Nation." George Herman died this week at age 85. He and his family are in our thoughts and prayers.
That's all for today. We'll be back next week. If it's Sunday, it's MEET THE PRESS.
© 2005 MSNBC Interactive
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6954712/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6954712/
MR. BUCHANAN: And then you will get out of all of the West Bank that's been occupied since 19...
MR. SHARANSKY: You know, the moments to democracy always will find a compromise, and I think- -as a matter of fact, today you will saying something, it goes without say, that every piece of territory which is under Palestinian control should be free from Jews. Well, it is clear that every piece of territory which is under control of Israel should not be and I think should not be free from Arabs. Let's prove that you have different types of societies and let...
MR. BUCHANAN: Would you let the Palestinians who lived in Israel before 1948 in a peace agreement return to their homes in what is now Israel?
MR. SHARANSKY: No. Look, exactly as modern--millions and millions of Jews came from different countries...
MR. BUCHANAN: Right.
MR. SHARANSKY: ...and live there and they're not returning to those countries and...
MR. BUCHANAN: But...
MR. SHARANSKY: ...even to absorb all those millions and millions grandchildren of those people who live over there, there would be no Jewish state anymore. Not one Jewish state. There's so many Arab states and you don't want to tell me one Jewish state...
MR. BUCHANAN: No, no.
MR. SHARANSKY: ...in the world.
MR. BUCHANAN: No, what I'm saying is you're saying--and I agree--in a peaceful agreement in Palestine...
MR. SHARANSKY: Yeah.
MR. BUCHANAN: ...that Jews ought to have a right to live...
MR. SHARANSKY: Yeah.
MR. BUCHANAN: ...on the West Bank. But if that is true, why cannot Palestinians, whose families have lived in that--where you live now for a thousand years, why cannot they in peace come home?
MR. SHARANSKY: And so there are more than a million Arabs who are full citizens of...
MR. BUCHANAN: Who want to come to Israel?
MR. SHARANSKY: ...Israel, who live in Israel, who--I think that we are the only country where Arab members of the parliament can freely criticize their government and enjoy all the freedoms and it is very important for us that not a one Arab citizen of Israel will leave it. But again, the problem in the Middle East was not created because of the lack of democracy...
MR. BUCHANAN: All right.
MR. SHARANSKY: ...but it cannot be solved if it will be not--if we will be the only democratic society there.
MR. BUCHANAN: Well, you're a democracy, but look...
MR. SHARANSKY: Yeah.
MR. BUCHANAN: ...and you say democracies are peaceful. Israel has fought five major wars since it was established. In three of them, 1956, 1967 and 1982, Israel launched pre-emptive strikes. It has been one of the most warlike countries in the Middle East. You have the king of Morocco, king of Jordan, king of Saudi Arabia and Ariel Sharon. Which of those four has been more warlike?
MR. SHARANSKY: Israel is the only member of the United Nations who's under constant threat of total annihilation--total annihilation. We have to fight for our rights to exist on this world...
MR. BUCHANAN: That's right.
MR. SHARANSKY: ...from the day we were born and I have to say unfortunately one of the modern problems of anti-Semitism is the denial of the right of Israel to exist.
MR. BUCHANAN: All right.
MR. SHARANSKY: They say all the Palestinians have to go back to Tel Aviv and all the Jews who came there, it's a colony. They have to leave it. That's what they hear now more and more in...
MR. BUCHANAN: Look, every American supports the right of Israel to exist and...
MR. SHARANSKY: Yeah.
MR. BUCHANAN: ...almost every American supports American weapons to Israel to defend its national security and national existence...
MR. SHARANSKY: Yeah.
MR. BUCHANAN: ...however, we do believe that Israel has got to give up the occupied territories in Gaza and the West Bank because this problem in the Middle East, which is caused there, is causing acts of terror, not only against you, but against us. It is making us hated in a part of the world where the United States was never before hated, was admired, if you will.
MR. SHARANSKY: Let me make final statement, please, final phrase on this.
MR. RUSSERT: Let him talk.
MR. SHARANSKY: I am willing, I wish, I want, I insist to give the Palestinians all the rights in the world except the right to destroy me. And the only way to do it is to encourage democratic reforms and a merging of a Democratic Palestinian state.
MR. BUCHANAN: Justice can't wait upon democracy.
MR. RUSSERT: To be continued.
MR. SHARANSKY: There will be no justice without democracy.
MR. RUSSERT: To be continued. Mr. Sharansky, this is your second appearance on MEET THE PRESS.
MR. SHARANSKY: Yes.
MR. RUSSERT: Ironically, 19 years ago...
MR. SHARANSKY: Yes.
MR. RUSSERT: ...shortly after your release from a Soviet prison, this is what American viewers saw.
MR. SHARANSKY: Yeah.
(Videotape, February 16, 1986):
Unidentified Man: Our guest today on MEET THE PRESS, Sunday, February 16, 1986, live from Tel Aviv, Israel, Anatoly Sharansky, a leader of the Soviet human rights movement, just released from eight years of Communist captivity, and Avital Sharansky, the wife who wouldn't let the world forget.
(End videotape)
MR. RUSSERT: And shortly after that you journeyed to the United States, met with President Reagan, and one Pat Buchanan in the White House. And you can...
MR. SHARANSKY: Yeah. Yeah.
MR. RUSSERT: ...still have a robust disagreement this morning.
MR. BUCHANAN: It was a pleasure.
MR. SHARANSKY: It's been a pleasure.
MR. RUSSERT: That's what democracy's all about. Thank you very much. We'll be right back.
MR. RUSSERT: Before we go, from 1969 to 1983, Sunday morning viewers watched George Herman question the leading figures in American politics as moderator of CBS' "Face the Nation." George Herman died this week at age 85. He and his family are in our thoughts and prayers.
That's all for today. We'll be back next week. If it's Sunday, it's MEET THE PRESS.
© 2005 MSNBC Interactive
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6954712/
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