bankintg without SS#


Tuesday, 23-Jan-01 01:11:20

    24.14.28.77 writes:

    bankintg without SS#

    Close all bank accounts!
    Refinance all of your loans without an SSN.
    Pay off everything which bears the mark of the beast!
    Try to live without a checking account for awhile and see how it feels.
    Personally, I thought it felt GREAT! (Your mileage may vary)

    You can do all of your payments on account using Postal Money Orders. They
    only cost f$0.85, and can be issued for any amount up to f$800.00. I work
    downtown, so it is no trouble to go to the Post Office on any given day.
    (Your mileage may vary)

    As a soccer referee, I get checks for my remuneration for personal services
    rendered. I get them from all over the state. It is generally not a problem
    to cash them, as I work downtown, and just about every bank in the state has
    a branch within walking distance. (Your mileage may vary)

    I always make an explicit reservation of rights above my endorsement, using
    the phrase: "All Rights Reserved" (See U.C.C. 1-207) I do this to preserve
    my right to a common law venue, rather than an equity venue should this
    matter have to come before a court. I also do this to give proper and timely
    notice to all concerned that I participate in this fraud under threat,
    duress, and coersion; and that I exchange my labor for worthless government
    securities under protest.

    Some banks take exception to this. For instance, the downtown Branch Manager
    of the local Central Fidelity Bank refuses to cash checks drawn upon their
    bank if I make such a reservation of rights. They construe a reservation of
    rights as a "restrictive endorsement", when a restrictive endorsement is only
    if I make the check payable to a third party. The next time they do this, I
    will file a verified complaint.

    Anyway, it was Friday. I usually take my paycheck to the local Jefferson
    National Bank, as they do not charge a service fee for cashing a payroll
    check for local companies. This time, however, the teller who generally just
    cashes them was not there, and the teller I used had to get approval. The
    Assistant Vice President took exception to my reservation of rights and
    refused to approve it. The conversation went like this:

    Me: I have been coming here for over a year and making this reservation of
    rights. Why is it a problem today?
    AVP: That's a restrictive endorsement, and I do not have to authorize it.
    You can deposit it if you like. Do you have an account?
    Me: A restrictive endorsement is when I sign it over to a third party. This
    is a reservation of rights. I do not have an account here. I come here
    because you do not charge a service fee to cash these checks.
    AVP: Why don't you just take it over to Crestar, then?
    Me: I don't have an account there. The husband of one of your tellers is a
    my wife's patient and I like to work with people that I know.
    AVP: Where do you have an account?
    Me: I don't have an account anywhere.
    AVP: We would love to have your business. Would you like to open an account
    here?
    Me: You do not want to open an account for me, I assure you. I do not have
    a social security number.
    AVP: Everyone has a social security number.
    Me: I am a citizen and not required to have one. Only aliens applying for
    permanent residency are required to have one. For all others, it is a
    voluntary application. I choose not to volunteer. I have a religious
    objection to the inventorying of human flesh. (You should see people squirm
    when they hear that. It's amazing the reaction they have when they realize
    just how repugnant that seems.)
    AVP: Everyone has a social security number. I canot open an account without
    one.
    Me: There is actually no reason for you to refuse to open an account for a
    person such as me. Here, let me write down some citations of the law and you
    can have someone in legal look them over and get back to me.

    So I wrote down:
    42 USC 405(c)(2)(B)(i) - SSN application requirements
    26 USC 6041(a) and (c) - requires only name, address and amount
    31 CFR 103.34 - bank requirement
    26 CFR 301.6109-1(c) - ask for number only


    She was totally amazed. She asked, "How can you just rattle that off?"
    I replied, "You can imagine how many times per month I have to explain this."


    I left her with that and decided to spend a few hours that weekend putting
    together a package. All of it is available on the internet, go to my links
    page to find the USC and CFR online.

    Here is the letter I wrote and hand delivered the following Monday:
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    --

    Brad L. Barnhill
    16th Judicial Circuit
    109 Shale Place
    Charlottesville, Virginia
    Monday, 2 February 1998

    L. Gayle Morris
    Assistant Vice President &
    Assistant Office Manager
    Main Office - Lobby
    P.O. Box 711
    Charlottesville, Virginia

    Dear Ms. Morris,

    I am sure that you recall that I stopped by this past Friday to cash my
    paycheck, as I normally do. You took exception to the manner in which I
    reserve my rights without prejudice to anyone, using the explicit reservation
    of "All Rights Reserved". I hope I recall correctly that you offered to help
    me open an account.

    I explained at that time that it seems very difficult for someone with my
    convictions to even exist in today's society. Due to my faith, I am
    prevented from participating in socialist government welfare programs such as
    social security. You can find my objection to the inventorying of human
    flesh at Revelations Chapter 13, verses 16 and 17 which state:

    16 "And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond,
    to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:"
    17 "And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name
    of the beast, or the number of his name."
    The above is the law my faith requires me to follow, but you seemed surprised
    that man's laws would allow me to bear no such mark. I wrote down a couple
    of citations for you and you told me that someone in legal would contact me
    about their point of view. I was not surprised that no one called. You see,
    I am quite used to being the hot potato on this issue.

    Even though I am not a lawyer, I have read quite of bit of law, in order to
    protect myself from those who would attempt to impose this sanction upon me.
    So I will try and break it down for you, as I see no reason for me to have a
    social security number, according to the laws of the United States.

    First, look at the requirement for application at 42 USC 405(c)(2)(B)(i)
    [Exhibit A]. I included the lead-in part of the section, to include
    subsection (a), so you did not think I was hiding anything. On the third
    page, please find (B)(i). Please notice that (I) aliens applying for
    permanent residency are required to get an SSN in order to work in the United
    States. For all others (II) it is voluntary in order to obtain benefits from
    the federal government. As this is repugnant to my faith, I choose not to
    volunteer. As a Citizen born in one of the states of the Union, I often
    resent being treated as an alien. If you can see any other way for this law
    to be construed such that I am required to apply, please show it to me.

    Second, look at the regulations regarding the requirement for someone to have
    an SSN for you to open an account at 31 CFR 103.34 [Exhibit B]. I included
    the entire regulation. On the first page at (a)(1), you see that:

    "it shall nevertheless not be deemed to be in violation of this section if
    (i) it has made a reasonable effort to secure such identification, and (ii)
    it maintains a list containing the names, addresses, and account numbers of
    those persons from whom it has been unable to secure such identification, and
    makes the names, addresses, and account numbers available to the Secretary as
    directed by him."
    This makes perfect sense if you change your mindset from one in which all
    human flesh on the planet must be inventoried, to one which conforms with
    both God's law and man's written law.

    I am not required to have an SSN, so I do not have one. You are required to
    ask for one, but that is all you are required to do, is to ask. You have
    done so, and now are relieved of that duty. The fourth section of this
    letter should make this very clear. You are lawfully allowed to open an
    account for me, so long as you maintain a list on which my name, address, and
    account number are to be found. If you can see any other way for this law to
    be construed such that I am required to give to you something I do not have,
    please show it to me.

    Third, I will address the Internal Revenue Code. Under section 6041 [Exhibit
    C], you are not even required to put a taxpayer identifying number on the
    1099 you submit to the IRS for interest payments for your customers. If you
    look carefully at subsections (a) and (c), you see no requirement for a
    taxpayer id number, only a name, address, and amount. Under Section 6049
    [Exhibit D], you will see in subsection (a)(2), the same requirement: name,
    address, and amount. If you can see any other way for these laws to be
    construed such that I am required to give to you something I do not have,
    please show it to me.

    Fourth, I will address the information return requirement of section 6109.
    Please look at the regulation at 26 CFR 301.6109-1(c) [Exhibit D], on the
    third page. Under the requirement to furnish another's number, you will see
    that:

    "When the person making the return, statement, or other document does not
    know the number of the other person, and has complied with the request
    provision of this paragraph, such person must sign an affidavit on the
    transmittal document forwarding such returns, statements, or other documents
    to the Internal Revenue Service, so stating."
    I am forced to ask, however, what return will you be making? I have told you
    that I will be opening a non-interest bearing account, so what is there to
    report? I state for this record that I am prevented by my faith from
    participating in usury, so I have no "interest" in an interest bearing
    account anyway. (Get it? No "INTEREST?" Sorry.) Again, if you can see any
    other way for these laws to be construed such that I am required to give to
    you something I do not have, please show it to me.

    I would like to point out, however, that even if I wished to participate in
    usury, that I would still need no identifying number, as you can see from the
    above laws. Anyone who tells you differently is quite mistaken. Why does it
    appear that there is no absolute requirement for everyone to have a number?
    Because there is no such requirement.

    Again, you see the consistency of man's law with God's law, if you cast off
    your preconceived notion that all human flesh on the planet must be
    inventoried. The Lord has his own inventory, I assure you. He has no need
    of any other. Should the day come when someone such as I must bear such a
    mark, then I will know that the Time has come, and I will prepare for the
    Rapture.

    Should you or someone of authority in your company think that you have a
    basis for refusing to do business with me, I demand to see it in writing.
    Should you refuse, I would be within my Rights to file a complaint with the
    Department of Justice, Civil Rights Division for your violation of Title VII
    of the Civil Rights Act due to your discrimination based upon my deeply held
    religious beliefs.

    However, since it is not my place to judge your actions, I will not. The
    Lord himself will judge you upon your actions in the time to come. I will
    allow you to ask your conscience what you should do. My experience is that
    people generally do what is easiest: They turn their face from me and shun
    me. You can prove me wrong. I know that I personally would prefer that you
    do what is right.

    Sincerely,

    /s/ Brad L. Barnhill

    Brad L. Barnhill

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I called Ms. Morris on Wednesday and asked her what was the disposition of
    the letter. She said that she had passed it on to legal, a Mr. Carlton
    Gregory. I asked her if she had read the letter, and she replied that she
    had "perused" it. I told her that I had written that letter especially for
    her as she seemed to be genuinely sympathetic to my predicament. I told her
    that I was disappointed that she had not done it justice. I thanked here and
    told her I would give Mr. Gregory a call. She gave me the extension, and I
    left a voice-mail for him to call me back.

    He called back that afternoon. The discussion covered all of the aspects of
    the letter. He told me that it would not be cost effective for the bank to
    maintain a list of names and addresses for only a couple of accounts, and
    that it was the bank's policy to not open accounts without a taxpayer id
    number.

    I asked him if his bank's policy should conform to the written laws of the
    United States. I asked him if he thought discrimination against me for my
    religious beliefs was appropriate.

    He said that they were not refusing to do business with me, that I was
    refusing to comply with bank policy.

    I asked him how I could possibly conform with bank policy, as I did not have
    an SSN to give him. I asked him if he was prepared to give the Justice
    Department a lawful reason why his bank was discriminating against 100% of
    the citizens who do not have a social security number. I told him that I had
    said in the letter that I would not file a complaint should I be refused
    service due to my religious beliefs but that it was becoming more and more
    difficult to exist in today's society if I cannot even cash a check. Was I
    supposed to refuse to take checks anymore?

    I asked him to kick it upstairs, and let them know that I do not want to
    cause legal problems for them, but that I was seriously considering it.

    He told me that he would do so, and get back to me. I reminded him that I
    wanted a written response.

    The discussion was really quite pleasant. He even told me to call him
    Carlton. I said that perhaps I could once we had broken bread.

    Well looky what I got in the mail today:
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Jefferson National Bank

    February 10, 1998

    Mr. Brad L. Barnhill
    109 Shale Place
    Charlottesville, Virginia 22902

    Dear Mr. Barnhill:

    I reviewed your letter of February 2, 1998 to Gayle Morris of this Bank.
    >From your letter and my discussion with Ms. Morris, it appears that this Bank
    refused to open a deposit account due to your declining to provide the staff
    with a taxpayer identification number. You have been advised that, based on
    Bank policy, staff are not permitted to open or maintain deposit accounts for
    customer who do not provide the Bank with a taxpayer identification number.
    You have asked that the Bank review the requirements in 31 CFR 103.34.

    We are familiar with 31 CFR 103.34 as it is the basis for our Bank policy to
    require a taxpayer identification for all deposit accounts. This Bank has
    implemented a policy to not permit the opening or maintaining of deposit
    accounts without our obtaining a taxpayer identification number within thirty
    (30) days of the opening. Due to the large number of accounts the Bank opens
    and maintains, the Bank decided that maintaining a list of accounts for which
    staff had not obtained a taxpayer identification number would be more timely,
    cumbersome, and costly than the business we might lose from those persons who
    might decline to provide JNB with a taxpayer number.

    After my discussion with you on February 4, 1998, I have inquired of
    Jefferson and Wachovia management staff regarding your request for an
    exception to the Bank's policy of requiring a taxpayer identification in
    connection with

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Mr. Brad L. Barnhill
    February 10, 1998
    Page 2

    the opening of an account. Since you indicated that you would not like to
    open an account which would pay you interest income, the Bank will consent to
    permit you to open a regular checking account that does not pay any interest.

    In order to facilitate your opening of the account, I suggest that you
    present a copy of this letter to the customer service representative who
    assists you with the opening of a Jefferson checking account.

    Should you have any questions, I can be reached at (804) 972-1217.

    Sincerely,

    /s/ Carlton S. Gregory

    Carlton S. Gregory
    Legal Officer

    cc: L. Gayle Morris

    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    I will be going down to the branch tomorrow to open an account.
    I will be keeping a very minimum balance in it,
    the least amount I can afford to lose if the IRS comes a knockin'.

    Caveat Emptor:
    If your assets are in the hands of a third party, then they are not safe.
    =============================================================
    "If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better
    than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask
    not your counsel or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands of those
    who feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you. May posterity forget
    that ye were our countrymen." - Samuel Adams

    Advancepum

RENO'S GONE--BAPTIST TEMPLE'S STILL HERE!!

(Bruce Evan Murch) (23-Jan-01 00:42:49)

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