J. ADAMS
If they lied to us for years, why should we believe them now
Thu Nov 21 21:55:17 2002
204.189.23.29

If they lied to us for years, why should we believe them now?

or

CONNECTING THE DOTS..........

Just a note on ChemTrails (not a hoax - now explainable):

Here in this area of Utah we are treated to the formation of ChemTrails approx. 250 - 300 days out of the year. I have personally videotaped their actions as has many others. The ChemTrails are always distinct from common JetTrails in that (unlike JetTrails) the ChemTrails begin with demarcation of an area (several large Xs are formed in the sky), are dispersed over a grid until the entire sky has been filled with parallel lines, and do not disperse as normal Jet vapor trails disperse - instead they hold their shape for up to an hour or more and then slowly disperse and occlude all blue sky as they move toward one another.

For YEARS the US Air Force has denied it even was involved in any spraying or aerosol dissemination of any material over the civilian population. Finally, this year, for the first time, they are talking. The official rhetoric being given forth is that certain military elements of certain countries are simply conducting bio-warfare detection exercises. They say they are conducting high altitude release of powderized clay mixed with egg whites (a protein). They release these substances and then utilize their detection equipment on the ground to sniff-out the protein. This information was made available and printed in the Salt Lake City papers this past summer after a barrage of inquiries.

Now I ask you:
1) If they lied to us for years, why should we believe them now?
2) Although they claim these substances are harmless, what studies are being conducted? How do we know there hasn't been a correlated increase of Emphysema or Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Diseases (COPD)?
3) Why would we want to breathe clay or egg whites?
4) With the American Sheeple so willing to be sprayed, what would stop them from changing the substance they are spraying at any time? Remember what happened in the management of terrorists in Russia last month? Imagine spraying a population with an extremely concentrated anesthetic agent (or worse, a bug). (This brings up the images on film in the old Bond movie "Goldfinger") How much liberty will you be exercising as they haul away your anesthetized carcass to a concentration camp? Waking up in chains would not be a freedom-enhancing experience.
5) Why would a person want to move to beautiful Utah and then have their blue skies turned milky-white nearly 300 days of the year? (BTW: you didn't see them spraying during the Olympics - did you? For one reason, there was far no much commercial traffic. The other reason was that the world came to America and why would we want them to see occluded skies?)

Be vigilant, fellow Patriots! Don't allow anyone to dismiss something this important as a "hoax" or "disinformation." Always due your own due diligence and check things out personally.

Jim Adams
Patriots Moderator




At 01:43 PM 11/21/2002 -0500, you wrote:

There is a presense, on the internet,

of persons who attempt to distract patriots away from defending liberty,

by seducing them into all sorts of silly programs;

which would ultimately, waste resources,

make them appear to be foolish,

and cause them to lose credibility..
This includes claims that the vapor trails; that jets always leave, are a plot to poison us.
This includes claims that thestickers, placed on the back of road signs by manufacturer's , are some sort of trail blazing for a future enemy army.
This even includes a propaganda blitz to BAN WATER, by using its scary sounding chemical name: Dihydrogen Monoxide

At the first glance we might be tempted to assume that it is merely madness,
that there are those among us who are telling people that the clouds,
and the street signs, are out to get us,
or that we should ban Dihydrogen Monoxide (which is also know as water)

To paraphrase Skakespeare
"Me thinks there is a method in their madness".

The REALLY interesting thing to notice, if HOW MANY of the "experts"; who
help to propagate these outlandish fantasies ARE PAST OR PRESENT FEDERAL EMPLOYEES.

If you will study the tactics used by the FBI COINTELPRO program.
THEN you will recognize FBI COINTELPRO immediately.

Visit:

http://occs.cs.oberlin.edu/~pjaques/etext/ifanagentknocks.html

Take note of the following paragraph:

"The FBI COINTELPRO program was initiated in 1956. Its purpose, as
described later by FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover, was "to expose, disrupt,
misdirect, discredit, or otherwise neutralize activities" of those
individuals and organizations whose ideas or goals he opposed. Tactics
included: falsely labelling individuals as informants; infiltrating groups
with persons instructed to disrupt the group; sending anonymous or forged
letters designed to promote strife between groups; initiating politically
motivated IRS investigations; carrying out burglaries of offices and
unlawful wiretaps; and disseminating to other government agencies and to
the media unlawfully obtained derogatory information on individuals and
groups."

If you understand the meaning of the tactic
"to expose, disrupt, misdirect, discredit, or otherwise neutralize activities"
you will understand that the person who is most likely of being a Fed,
is the one who involves patriots in activities that have no effect on the New World Order,
or which will destroy the credibility of the patriots.

The New World Order would love to convince people that we are all a bunch of
paranoid nuts, so that we will we unable to warn people about The New World Order.

The New World Order would be more capable of convincing people that we are
paranoid nuts, if they could convince a segment of the patriots to run around telling people that the clouds, and the street signs, are out to get us, or that we should ban water.

If you understand the meaning of the tactic
"infiltrating groups with persons instructed to disrupt the group;
sending anonymous or forged letters designed to promote strife between groups"
OR OF:
"disseminating to other government agencies and to
the media unlawfully obtained derogatory information on individuals and
groups."
THEN you will know that a campaign of personal attacks
on the real patriots is a part of the FBI COINTELPRO program.

Like any other pack of wolves,
when one of them is in trouble the others will come to his aid.
Then we know who the others are too

There is now a program, designed to promote strife between groups, that involves a

character assassination against myself personally. Apparently I have been far too effective in debunking these fairy tales, and they now resort to personal attacks on me.

These attacks center around the fact that one of my businesses, was for a very short time, listed in one of many an unusual directory.

Years ago, I used SEVERAL different submission services to
get them listed in directories, and search engines.
These submission services submit businesses to thousands
of free advertising entities. They also automatically confirm the submissions, in bulk.
One of these submission services submitted my Cottage
to a directory of lodging that describes itself as "Gay friendly" accommodations.
Like everything else; to which, these submissions services submit,
it was a free listing.
I pulled the ad, out of the directory, as soon I found out about it.
I also stopped using two submission services because of this.
(one of these had to be innocent, but I had no way to know which one it was
... tough break)
This is not hard for anyone to understand.

One who claims that he does not understand this is one of two things:
1. an idiot
or 2. One who ignores the facts because of ulterior motivations

Automated data base advertising does not select, or screen, recipients.
Manual cancellations are frequently needed... , and are regularly done.
If it were not for the fact that these agent provacatuers,
so regularly surf in these areas of interest to homosexuals,
I might not have known, so quickly, that this listing had been created.
These services submit a site to every directory, and search engine,
that they have configured.
Then the site owner has to reverse the undesirable ones as soon as he finds out about them.

This accusation is not ignorance. This is dishonesty.
This person persistantly propagates a falsehood,
after being shown information that is
very easy for anyone to understand.

This demonstrates a lack of credibility;
which reflects on every other position that he might present.

This character assassination would never even come up;
except that I have done such a good job of refuting this person's
ridiculous claims.

Those who argue for truth can use facts.
Those who argue fiction must resort to attacks on the messenger.

Shifting the discussion from the issues to the messenger
is an admission of defeat in the ideological arena.

Whatever is,
or is not true,
about me;
or about my resort;
it has NOTHING to do with my very effective opposition to
the foolishness that a fool tries to spread.
.

It is a compliment to find that one does not meet the hoax maker's standards for credibilitly.
The hoax maker's combine logical fallacies together to evade discussing issues.
The individual; who is now attacking me, has a LONG history of perpetrating hoaxes
YEAR AGO, I had decided to leave this professional fraud alone,
but apparently he will not allow that.

So let us review his record and his tactics

Poisoning the Well Fallacy - involves trying to discredit what a person might later claim by presenting unfavorable information (be it true or false) about the person. Actually a type of ad hominem; except that it is done IN ANTICIPATION of debate.


ad hominems - personal attacks to shift the discussion from the message, to the messenger.

Straw man - Attempting to burden an opponent with an unpopular, or indefensible, position; which was never presented.

Why does he do this?
Because I have repeatedly exposed his hoaxes:

How MANY hoaxes are we supposed to accept, from one person, before we just stop listening all together?

1) The hoax to ban WATER.
The web site posted by Larry Lawson:

http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html

This is the hoax that relates to the alleged dangers of Dihydrogen Monoxide
The Dihydrogen Monoxide hoax was EXTREMELY EASY to debunk.
Dihydrogen Monoxide is a chemical term for H2O.
H2O is more commonly known as WATER.
Apparently the hoax makers "get off" on seeing JUST HOW stupid they can prove that people are.
Gives all sorts of scary sounding warnings about Dihydrogen Monoxide.
The web site posted by Larry Lawson TRUTHFULLY tells you that Dihydrogen Monoxide is fatal by inhalation.
This is also known as DROWNING.
The web site posted by Larry Lawson TRUTHFULLY tells you that Dihydrogen Monoxide (more commonly known as WATER) is present in cancer tumors, in pesticides, in corrosives, in explosives, in abortion clinics, etc. etc. etc.

The simple lesson is THAT, WITH CLEVER DECEPTIVE DOUBLE TALK, ANYTHING CAN BE MADE TO SOUND SCARY.

2) Airline Mechanic hoax- now admitted to be false
Details are below

3) Tac Mars- allegedly a primitive "trail blazing" system... from an enemy that has maps, Global positioning systems, and satellites, radar, AWACs, inertial guidance, night vision, cellular phones, etc. More discussion on "Tacmars" is below

4) Chemtrails- If they wanted to poison us, they would spray the cities, not to woods and the deserts. DUH???
A handful of past and present federal employees deceive a few real patriots.
Together they put up a few hundred web sites.
They tape interviews with each other.
These taped interviews are made to sound like real radio or television shows.
Then they post those interviews on the web, as if they had been broadcast.
Then; in the place of evidence, we get a list of the names of people who believe what has been said:
Four people in Australia, one in Indiana, one in Michigan, etc.
These massively "high" percentages are supposed to impress us out of asking for real evidence of the sort that REALLY would be broadcast.
If it was true, there would be MILLIONS of people with first hand knowledge of it.
FOR STARTERS:
Employees who works in every single agency that regulates,
health, the environment, air traffic, interstate commerce, the military, or
transportation at EVERY level of government (FEDERAL, STATE, and LOCAL).
Health care professionals in both in every level of
government, and in the private sector.
Media personnel
Airline employees
military personnel
safety inspectors who regularly inspect every part of every airplane.
mechanics who regularly maintain airplanes.
the unions for airplane workers.
The House of Representatives
I am sure I have missed a few million other people, but why even bother to go on?

The number of people who have fallen for the chemtrail hoax is INCREDIBLY small compared to what would CERTAINLY exist is there was EVIDENCE.

What EVIDENCE??

Give the phone number of a CERTIFIED LAB; which sent a qualified chemist to collect and preserve samples for testing in accordance with standard approved methods. JUST ONE!

The procedure that I am describing happens thousands of times every day. I would think that you could do it JUST ONCE.
More Discussion On Chemtrails is Below

HOW MANY MORE HOAXES???

If we are deceived by hoaxes, then REAL patriots will be embarrassed, discredited, and rendered ineffective. Patriots; who lose credibility, will be unable to provide factual information. Credibility is EARNED.
A person's record speaks for itself.

==============
More Discussion On Chemtrails:
I am 55 year old. I have watched jets making trails in the sky ever since
they were first invented, and replaced prop driven planes.
The "McCarthy ERA" was my childhood, and jets were leaving trails in the sky
at that time.
Jet fuel is Hydrocarbon. When it burns, it forms carbon dioxide and water
vapor.
The water vapors condense in the cold atmosphere and make a cloud, just like
all of the other clouds. The only difference is that they mark the pathway
of the jet. It is a natural phenomenon, which no one can change.

IT IS SAFE TO SAY THAT EVERY ANONYMOUS TESTIMONIAL is a hoax.

Anyone who has hard EVIDENCE about something of great importance would
certainly gain the support of the American people, AN GO DOWN IN HISTORY, as
a HERO, for making it known.

We are generally told that the identity of the persons, who give these
ANONYMOUS TESTIMONIALS, must be kept secret "because they would go to
prison" if it was known that they had revealed this information. And where
can we read the statute that they would be charged with violating? Even
violating a confidentiality agreement is not a crime, but a civil matter.

People who post ANONYMOUS TESTIMONIALS are TOTALLY UNRELIABLE IN ALL
REGARDS.

Even if the people who post ANONYMOUS TESTIMONIALS are not consciously
perpetrating a hoax; then they are still TOTALLY UNRELIABLE IN ALL REGARDS,
because they are gullible and foolish.

There are THOUSANDS of airline mechanics. Why is there only ONE ANONYMOUS STORY, supposedly from an airline mechanic?

There are THOUSANDS of airline management personnel. Why is there only ONE ANONYMOUS STORY supposedly from an airline management person?

The REALLY interesting thing to notice, if HOW MANY of the "experts"; who
help to propagate the "chemtrails" story ARE PAST OR PRESENT FEDERAL
EMPLOYEES. It is also interesting to see how many ANONYMOUS testimonials we
get. Why is there never any hard evidence?
If you will study the tactics used by the FBI COINTELPRO program.

you will recognize FBI COINTELPRO immediately.

Visit:
http://occs.cs.oberlin.edu/~pjaques/etext/ifanagentknocks.html

Take note of the following paragraph:

"The FBI COINTELPRO program was initiated in 1956. Its purpose, as
described later by FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover, was "to expose, disrupt,
misdirect, discredit, or otherwise neutralize activities" of those
individuals and organizations whose ideas